lesson learned the muddy way.
I feel your pain on the gravel-only approach. I once skipped the pipe thinking it was overkill—big mistake. After a particularly wet spring, my carefully planned patio turned into a mini swamp. Ended up tearing out half the pavers and installing proper drainage pipes anyway. Honestly, if you're investing the time and money into concrete foundations or patios, skimping on drainage is just asking for trouble down the road... learned that one the hard way myself.
Been there myself—thought a thicker gravel base and good compaction would do the job. Nope. After one heavy rainstorm, my walkway turned into a slip-n-slide. Ended up installing perforated pipes wrapped in geotextile fabric beneath the gravel layer. The difference was night and day. Drainage might seem tedious at first, but it's way easier than ripping everything out later to fix a soggy mess... lesson definitely learned!
"Drainage might seem tedious at first, but it's way easier than ripping everything out later to fix a soggy mess..."
Wish I'd read this before my own DIY patio adventure. Thought I could skip the drainage step entirely—rookie mistake. After the first big storm, it looked more like a kiddie pool than a patio. Ended up doing exactly what you did with the perforated pipes and fabric. Definitely worth the extra effort upfront... lesson learned here too.
Fair point, drainage matters—but honestly, sometimes folks go a bit overboard with the prep. My neighbor skipped the perforated pipes altogether and just did a solid slope away from the house. Patio's been bone-dry for years now. Not saying drainage isn't important, just that there might be simpler ways to handle it without all the extra gear. Guess it depends on your location and soil type though...
Good points there—sometimes simpler really is better. I've seen folks spend a fortune on drainage setups only to find out later it wasn't even necessary. On the flip side, my cousin did exactly what your neighbor did—a solid slope away from the house—but ended up with puddles because the soil was super clay-heavy and compacted. Maybe the trick is knowing your soil first? Curious if anyone's tried mixing simple slopes with minimal drainage gear and had success...
